Mating and Relating
Where curiosity meets conversation! Mating and Relating is bringing the real, the taboo and the relatable to the table in love, sex and relationships!
I’m Bri and my mission for the M&R Podcast is to be a safe space to explore the nuances of relationships and sex. We are connective beings meant to nourish and embrace our erotic nature with ourselves and with others. Whether platonic, romantic, monogamy, multi-gamy or somewhere in between, we all desire to live and feel fully expressed, safely loved and well f*cked; specifically in the ways that nurture and expand our individual versions of self and intimacy.
Each week I’ll aim to normalize the convo and refine the stigmas around sex and love through candid chats, personal experiences, educated segments and empowering tidbits to show you just how relatable your desires and situations actually are!
Invite your friends, your partner, your mother or your platonic lovers and join the convo everyone is begging to have more of!
Mating and Relating
Coffee In The Morning: The Illusion of One Person Being Everything
Ask Bri! Got a question? Send it over and listen out for a response during the following episode!
We explore the modern expectation for our romantic partners to fulfill multiple roles – from lover and confidant to therapist and best friend – and how this pressure affects relationships in detrimental ways.
• Examining how we now rely on one person for needs that communities traditionally fulfilled
• The phenomenon of giving our "best selves" to work while bringing our "leftovers" home to partners
• Why using your partner as an emotional "punching bag" damages relationship dynamics
• The importance of maintaining individuality while building intimacy in partnerships
• How bringing conflict to relationships actually strengthens connection when done respectfully
• The false dichotomy of "winning" versus "losing" in relationship disagreements
• Building healthy interdependence rather than codependence through outside friendships and interests
• Learning to communicate about issues directly with partners instead of just venting to friends
• Viewing your relationship as a team rather than seeing your partner as an opponent
The real loss isn't apologizing when you're wrong – it's letting your relationship crumble because you refused to be vulnerable enough to admit mistakes.
Let's learn to individuate and cultivate interdependence over merging so fully that we submit to codependency. We don't have to be everything for and to our partner's.
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Love, Bri
Thank you, you're welcome. Look at me you comfy. Yeah, you want to be more comfy. Is my leg bothering you? No, I'm comfy.
Speaker 2:Okay, cheers, cheers, coffee in the morning Ding.
Speaker 1:So I was at Astaire this past weekend.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm In Philadelphia In.
Speaker 1:Philly, it was her, so I was at Astaire this past weekend In Philadelphia. In Philly. It was her. How do you say the word inauguration? Is that the right word? Is that how you say it? Inaugural? Yeah, it's like the opening.
Speaker 2:Inaugural.
Speaker 1:Okay, event of her future, of love, desire and relationships, oh wow.
Speaker 2:So it was like the. It was the first show, yeah, wow. Is like the. It was the first show. Yeah, wow, is it like a tour? Is she going on tour?
Speaker 1:okay, yeah, so I got to go see her first show opener yeah, her inaugural show yeah that's how you say it inaugural, inaugural inaugural, yeah, inaugural, something like that inaugural inaugural and inaugural inaugural, inaugural, we're just gonna.
Speaker 2:It's one of those words that we're gonna repeat anyways, we don't say it very often okay.
Speaker 1:So I went to her show and I love a stare renowned sex therapist, amazing all her stuff. One of the topics that she brought up, which I absolutely love, was how in like the modern world of romanticism okay how we desire for our partner to be. All of the things for us right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:We want them to be our lover, our confidant, our therapist, our gym buddy, our best friend, right, the person who our adventurer, like all the things, the person that we like our punching bag, and really we rely on one person, and we rely on one person now to be the thing that we used to have community for wait, say that last part one more time we rely on one person what we used to have community for right, right yeah um, so now we've romanticized this thing that this one person has to fulfill all of these needs that we once had, um, you know, community of people to be able to fulfill.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I really enjoy the sentiment that it can be really difficult in a relationship, especially in heteronormative, monogamous relationship, where you do rely on your partner for everything. I rely on you for a lot of things, and there was one point in my life and in my understanding of relationship that that was the ideal, that was the thing that I totally put on the pedestal, was having this one person to be my everything. Um, and how it's interesting now, through the work that I do and just through growing with you in relationship, how that's changed and all the pressures that I think that puts on us to show up in partnership a very specific way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, do you think that? So? Do you think she's saying that we in like a negative way, we do that, we put that on our partner to be everything, or do you think we've just grown to do that, or that's just something that we do? Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:it does make sense. I'm going to start with the first one. Like do I feel like it's a negative thing, I think it can be detrimental?
Speaker 2:do you think she thought it was a? She's saying it's a negative thing?
Speaker 1:I don't necessarily think that she's looking at it in positive or negative. I think it's one of those things where it's just an acknowledgement, right Like that we do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah that we do it. That now, instead of having community to fulfill our desires, having friends, a best friend outside of our partner who we can go and turn to in times of, like, struggle or frustration, or just to like give us something different, a different experience, a different set of energy, just a different type of relationship. We want it all in each other. Like there is this idea that, like it's so exciting to have like the best friend in my lover. It's like, and you and I got to a point where I was like I don't want you to be my best friend, yeah yeah yeah, you know like yeah there was a point there where you're like I'm your only best friend, I'm your only friend.
Speaker 1:I'm the only person who cares about you. I'm sorry, right like that's terrible. I don't know if I actually really meant it. Maybe I did. No, I don't think you did.
Speaker 2:I think it was just one of those things of you know, when it's beginning love and you think like no, it's just me. I want it's just me and you just me and you forever.
Speaker 1:Nobody's gonna love you like I do. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't think it was like truly that for sure yeah um, so okay, so you don't. You don't think it was, you't, you don't think she thought of it and she says that in a good or a bad way, or in a negative or a positive way. How do you feel about it? Like what? Where are your thoughts? Do you think it's like people use it in a negative way? Yeah, Like relationships.
Speaker 1:I think there can be beautiful aspects of it, and I also think that there can be super detrimental aspects to it, right Like if I rely on you for everything, like where do we begin and end?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like, where do we begin? And then, where do us individually begin? Right, if I need you essentially to be everything for me, what happens then to my individuality? Okay, what happens then to my individuality? Okay, what happens into your individuality? If you want to go out and hang out with the guys or hang out with friends and I'm like, and I'm like, no, I'm that person for you, I can totally see how in relationship, because it's been that way at one point in time for us, where it's like you're spending so much time with the boys, yeah, where do I get to come into play? Why can't I be your best friend?
Speaker 2:Right, right, you know like, but then I would also invite you over to the boys and you did not like, you did not enjoy doing that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Because I hated their place. Sorry guys.
Speaker 2:I hear that. I hear that I understand. I love them, hated.
Speaker 1:I love them yeah.
Speaker 2:I hear that. Okay, so yeah, it's individuality, individuality.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it can cause tears within that. Okay, I think it's also this idea that, like, any sort of expansion in a relationship means that there's somehow it somehow takes away from what then you share. And then it also goes into this idea too of like having friends of the opposite sex. Say, you're sitting inside of a relationship that you and I have right, like we're very heteronormative, monogamous relationship. Yeah, like having friends of the opposite sex has definitely been an issue for you and I at one point Sure yeah, Not anymore but like definitely no, but it can be, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it can be for any couple, any relationship, yeah.
Speaker 1:And in the beginning of the relationship, what are you doing? You're building on the foundation of how you see the relationship going. Yeah yep, and hopefully you build into the foundation of communication, to where you then can talk about the things that come up. You, you can talk about the struggles of being everything for one person.
Speaker 1:You can talk about the struggles of not feeling like you're fulfilling your partner's needs if they are getting it in whatever other way, and like, maybe, the conversation of how do you handle being in friendship with people that maybe you find attractive, or being in friendship with people of the opposite sex, and that's also still a very taboo thing in a lot of heteronormative, monogamous relationships.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Do you think, though, that it could be a positive thing, though in some aspects, I feel like some relationships are just not, they're not close enough. In a lot of aspects, like I feel, like some, I hear you where some relationships are like they're too close, like they're they do everything together, they're best friends, they don't. They don't really go anywhere, they don't do anything, they just are with each other constantly, all the time. That's fine if you want to do that, but it's like I feel like, sometimes, if that one person wants to pull away the other person's, like absolutely not. Do you think, because why? Because that individuality is gone, you know it's. It's also like maybe they feel this tie of like they have to be with that person. If they're going to go out and do something, let's say we're all going to, you know? Or yeah, we're all going to go out as friends, but that one person can't go, but the other person can, they're like, no, they can't go, why not, you know?
Speaker 1:so that's a great question why not?
Speaker 2:right, I hear that, but in other aspects what I was going to do, devil's advocate, is Love it.
Speaker 1:Love it.
Speaker 2:Devil's advocate. I think that some relationships, though, are like too far on the other spectrum, where they, like they don't do anything together. Sometimes it's like they have. They are complete independence of each other, like all the time, whereas, like the only time they are together maybe is like when they're at home at night, like maybe they have dinner and they go to bed maybe they functions right, yeah, so things that almost feel like requirements within relationships, right so?
Speaker 2:I feel like that sometimes, or maybe they don't even want to spend time together. I mean, we've seen that too in like it's like they don't even want to spend time together, which is also sad that almost feels taxing.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, so it's like I think there's a good balance, right, I think that's, and maybe that's what I get from what Astaire is saying. Astaire is saying is that and I think that's probably why there's no positive or negative is because there needs to be a good balance. I think with your partner you need to have a good balance of. They are your friend, maybe not your best friend, which I think they can be, but like they're your very close friend. They probably know you better than a lot of people know you. You know they are your lover, they are your sometimes caretaker, but you're their caretaker. It goes back and forth.
Speaker 1:It's almost like it can't be. Not, it can't be. I'm not going to use that Instead of looking at it like they're the sole owner of all of these things. Right, yeah, like you can share that. It doesn't have to be one of those things where you go completely reliant on them, completely codependent, yeah yeah, it's learning how to manage the interdependence of the relationship I hear that, but it's also like what if?
Speaker 2:what if everyone else is busy, who do you turn to? There's your partner, absolutely so. I feel like it's that thing of like I get where you don't need to rely on them fully for that, but it's also like they are your partner. It goes back to making sure that you are available to your partner. So if they do need that in that circumstance, why not be there for them?
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:So I hear where it's like, don't rely on them, but it's also like if you have no one else, why not rely on them?
Speaker 1:And even to add to what you're saying too, is there's nothing wrong with relying on your partner? I absolutely think it's paramount to be able to rely on your partner. If I can't rely on you to come to you with things, what? What is that?
Speaker 2:What is this? I hear that Right.
Speaker 1:Like I have so much trust and faith in you that I do rely on you for happiness, for comfort, for love, for encouragement, for support, love for encouragement, for support, for motivation, for being honest with me, right, for pushing me for things, for, like holding me accountable, like all of those things. I do rely on you for it. It's the amount of reliance, right, if it's one of those things where it's like it's you are my sole reliance, that I think can end up turning into um, too much codependency. Yeah, now, like we have the interdependency, like I can come to you with all the things and typically you are the first person I want to come to with all of these things, but if you are also not available, then who can I go to?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I think it goes both ways. It goes absolutely both ways of what I was saying. That, to me, is where I feel like you're coming from where it's like you can't rely on them solely. You have to have outside sources of that, and I absolutely agree with that. I do think that is a healthy thing to have in a relationship. One thing I want to get to is, though, is, like we, I don't think in any relationship someone should be your punching bag. That's horrible, I mean.
Speaker 2:I don't think that should be in any relationship whatsoever yeah now, unless you have a friend that you go boxing with, that is different legitimately legitimately punch day or your punching bag, but emotionally I don't think you should. If you have a friend that you're doing that to kudos to that friend because they shouldn't be your friend.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:If you are the friend that is having that done to you, maybe you really need to look into that friendship.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely Set the boundary, have the conversation Be like. I don't like the way that you're showing up for me. I don't like the way that you're treating me, because that's not a friendship.
Speaker 2:Absolutely being a punching bag, a relationship. That's the worst you know. Yeah, to get the wrath of someone else's um heat. To get the wrath of someone else's uh, anger that there. It has nothing to do with you, but they're directing it at you.
Speaker 1:That's horrible there was another quote that ester said that I thought was really beautiful.
Speaker 1:She was like so many of of us give our best selves to the work that we do and out to the world and we bring the leftovers home, yeah, and like, how true is that?
Speaker 1:Right, because there is such a comfort.
Speaker 1:It's that whole idea where it's like you can like show your ass around the people that you're comfortable with, but then in public you're like a little bit more politically correct, you're a little bit more like put together because it's like you're you're still very conscious of the impact that what your language or how your attitude or how you're showing up is going to affect the people there, that you don't know that maybe there's not that built-in trust or security or comfort there to be like able to show yourself to.
Speaker 1:But there is a comfort of the people that you are at home with your family, your close friends, your partner. You're so comfortable being exactly who you are, hopefully, with them that you can show the hard sides of yourself that you know may not be necessarily appropriate or digestible in public and you know, hopefully, that they are going to offer, one, the space for you to show up in that way and two hold you accountable for not showing up in a way that is actually like respectful and like because if I come home to you and I've had a shit day yeah I'm like I start showing my ass to you, taking my, bringing my leftovers home to you, and I trust that you're gonna be like hey, like we don't talk to each other like this.
Speaker 1:Hey, like this is not okay. I understand you had a hard day and you've done this to me. You've checked me before. I understand you have a hard day, but like we don't talk to each other like this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, we've done it both ways. I think you have to get to that point, though, in your relationship to know, like you don't do that to me, yeah, you so many people don't probably don't say that to their partner Like, hey, I'm not, no, Because we've never been taught to have those conversations without it being so detrimental to the relationship.
Speaker 1:Like you told me that I'm not allowed to act this way towards you. Fuck you, yeah, Like. Then it almost elicits more anger and more frustration because we're not prepared on how to handle that type of conflict within a relationship.
Speaker 2:So maybe it goes to who do we have to teach us how to do this, or the other way? Well, see, this is where I think it's. Also, people will say like yeah, well then, who am I supposed to? How am I supposed to get that anger out? Where am I supposed to do that? Go for a fucking run, motherfucker. Go for a run. Go take that. Go hit a fucking bag. Go play golf. Go play golf.
Speaker 1:That actually might make me more angry. Go to the shooting range.
Speaker 2:Go to whatever you need to do to blow off steam.
Speaker 1:I love that we immediately go to weapons. I know.
Speaker 2:Sorry, or Go to a rage room.
Speaker 1:Well, I don't want to say that. I don't want to say weapons, I want to say no, they have rage Firearm.
Speaker 2:Yeah oh, yeah, I mean go play a sport. There's so many other things that you can do, and you can even tell your partner like, hey, I had a really shitty day. I need to go for a run real quick to get out this anger. It has nothing to do with you, I just had a shit day at work. I need to go run out because I don't want to take it out on anyone else here. Cool, go for a run.
Speaker 1:Go work out go to the gym, go do whatever.
Speaker 2:Yeah, go for a walk, just kind of do something that doesn't where, you don't expel that energy on the person that you actually want to show you comfort, right, or sometimes what you can do, what we do or what you know. It's not the greatest thing, but it feels better as we go take the dog for a walk, and then I literally just vent, or you will just vent Sometimes. That's fine too, but at least you're doing something actively outside that's taking your mind off of just solely like putting all that crap on your partner. You're just saying it out to the world and spewing that negative energy out, and you're not getting it stuck in like your home or in a space. It's outside, so it can float off into the freaking universe and somebody else can have it. Yeah, that's better, though, than just sitting down and like doing it over dinner. That's horrible. That's horrible conversation. Yeah, but at least if you guys are going for a walk or taking your dogs for a walk or doing whatever, maybe that's a little better.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So, A little healthier.
Speaker 2:A little more healthier yeah.
Speaker 1:Because then also at least that's another thing to bring up is that if you're going to like share how you're feeling to your partner about your shitty day and maybe they've had a shitty day Maybe it's one of those things where it's constant back and forth of just like I'm gonna, I'm gonna shit on you, I'm gonna, I'm gonna like I don't want to say dump on you, but you know what?
Speaker 2:I mean I'm gonna drop a deuce on you drop drop deucing deuce on me no, but yeah, I'm gonna. Um, there's a word though that's like I'm going to anyways.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to you can debrief, debrief, you can totally debrief your day without taking it out on the person.
Speaker 1:Oftentimes it is what happens we show our best selves, we keep things in, we tight lip life when we're outside, and then we come home and we literally debrief and just like off board all of the things that we're feeling onto our partner, as opposed to allowing, like, the space between the two of you to be safe, to just share how you feel. It's like let me take it out on you instead. That's what you're getting back to about the punching bag thing. I hear that, but it does happen.
Speaker 2:No-transcript where else are they going to go, stupid?
Speaker 1:or it's that idea like who else am I going to do it to?
Speaker 1:well, not them yeah, exactly so it's like who do we have? I don't think I ever had like a true example of how to do that in relationship, like growing up, like my parents would argue, and one thing I loved is they would take it in the bedroom, they would do it away from us. I didn't get to see the conflict. Therefore, I also didn't get to see the resolution. I didn't get to see the process of how they worked through things. I just knew something was going on because they left the space. At the time I was like thanks for not, like I love that I didn't get to visually see it all going on and at the same time, maybe also they didn't have the tools like to be able to communicate it in a way that, like, would be healthy for us, so they just took it somewhere else.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So even in doing that like thank you, mom and dad, and I didn't get to see how conflict was actually handled in a healthy way.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I also kind of had to learn that through trial and error, through having relationships where I had big summer blowouts and like big summer blowout you know where, like my little like devil came out and I was mean and I was verbally abusive and I was just like physically, just like a monster and or people hold stuff in.
Speaker 2:People hold stuff in, hold stuff in. Yeah, they slowly take it out on the other person. They hold it in, and then one day they just explode.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's even worse. It's like it's. That's why I say sometimes it's better to tell your partner. I just need to vent and debrief not directed at you, but I just need to say it out into the world Like my day was absolute shit. Traffic was fucking horrible. You know, whatever it may be that is making you so angry, just let it out. Sometimes it's better to communicate that than to you know, and it doesn't even have to be sometimes like hey, I don't, I don't even need you know some of this stuff. I just want to say it. I don't even need anything from it. You don't even really have to hear me, I just need to say it out loud yeah, and it's not at you.
Speaker 1:It might be directed like in the same area, but this isn't at you sure but it's one of those things where it's like, if you don't have models to say like, this is how you can this is how you can.
Speaker 1:This is how you can do it right without actually taking it out on your partner. Your partner does end up becoming the punching bag, or at least it can feel that way, and so where else do you have to go? Who else can you go to to talk about these things, where maybe it's not going to affect their partnership in such a detrimental way, maybe it's not one of those things that you're solely reliant on your partner to be for you, so that they're not always also onboarding the feelings that you're carrying too. Because that can really happen, like when we sit inside of this, the space of your partner being all the things for you. If you are sharing with them, which I hope you are, like I do with you, if you onboarded everything that I shared with you, it could also fuck your day up yeah it's true, because then where do you go to debrief about that?
Speaker 1:Where do you get to go to off-board that Right yeah, and then it's just constant.
Speaker 2:Well see, that's why I sometimes say it's better to just go out for a walk or go walk your dogs or something, because at least it's out in the universe and it's not necessarily directed towards them, and maybe you don't. It's not like a an argument occurs from, it's just like I just needed to. My day was stupid.
Speaker 1:this is why, yeah, blah, blah, blah, blah done and if you're irritating the shit out of me, yeah, like now we're at a point where I can come to you like you're irritating me and we have a conversation about it right yeah, like that's a hard thing to do and I hope like it's not like I did that.
Speaker 1:We didn't did that from the very beginning. No, absolutely not like we learned to get to that point, but like, of course, I had friends that I was like john's being a shithead yeah, but you also do this dance.
Speaker 2:I feel like in the beginning of your relationship, in any relationship and sometimes I think for marriage it could be like the first three years you always do this dance of like they're irritating me, but I'm just gonna weave around them and weave around that, and then maybe we'll get to it, or and then eventually it's just one of those things where you have to be like listen, this is why I'm pissed off. Or you ask someone because I know I can typically tell when you're angry, I can typically tell when you're irritated. So, like I know for a fact, I can just say like hey, I know you're upset. Sometimes you'll just say, no, I'm okay, but I know deep down inside there's something that's making you angry or upsetting you. Yeah, um, but I do think that, like having your friend, having a friend help you is, is a good thing, but I think some people tell them sometimes, take a, they abuse that.
Speaker 1:Right they. They get to like share all the things that they're feeling with towards their partner. And then they come back and it's like peasy, peasy, and then their partner's sitting with like you were just pissed, the fuck off at me, and now we're like Gucci.
Speaker 2:Wait, hold on, what were you saying? Because I was talking about like they abuse it, like as in. Like, let's say they get off of work and then they're like I'm going to go have a beer with my friend and then they just dump on, friend, but they're constantly going out and having a beer after work because they had a shitty day or whatever, and they're never actually and their partner might be like well, I, I would like to know, like what's going on exactly.
Speaker 2:Maybe they come home, okay, but maybe they, you know, you know, it's just like this numbing feeling of like coming home, I don't know I was exactly saying the exact same thing okay, sorry, no, don't be sorry, I didn't.
Speaker 1:I cut you off. No, it.
Speaker 2:It's okay. I just didn't get the analogy you were making. My bad, I was just Same exact thing, okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, they take it elsewhere, they don't bring it home to actually find resolution within the relationship Right. They just off-board it and then come home and everything's fine. It's like wait, yeah. No, that's not how it works. To be the person that you know right, like that you come to to also tell what's going on right within the relationship, like conflict resolution, we have to find it here right, but I don't think it's always about that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:Maybe that's why I thought it was different is because, oh, it's not always about the relationship. What I'm saying is exterior. If they had a shitty day at work and then they go out and have a beer they are constantly doing that, yeah, and their partners why are you always going out after work having a beer? You know what I mean. Well, I had a shitty day at work. Well, I can hear you talk about it. You don't want to talk about it to me. That's where I think it can be, that thing of like why aren't you confiding in me? And like, why are you having a shitty day? I don't know. Sometimes I think it is okay, but it's like a catch 22. Is it like so you want you don't want me to get mad at you, but you do want me to. You don't want me to get mad at you, but you do want me to tell you like, well, I had a shitty day, but you can do it in a way that's not taking it out on them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's what we're saying. Yes, I hear. What you're saying, though, is going out and telling other people, like, man, you know my wife's, you know doing this, she's nagging me. Or my husband is just pissing me the fuck off. You know, like I feel like, if you constantly are doing that with someone outside of your relationship, or not your partner, I think it's a multitude of things that are wrong with that. In my opinion, you're not telling your partner how you feel. You're not telling your partner how you feel. You're not telling your partner what's going on. You're not. You know your partner has no idea, maybe, of like, how you feel. Then your other, your friend, might not even see. It's probably one-sided, maybe, depending on your friend, they don't know the other side of it. They don't know that like, maybe they're're. You know you're getting annoyed because it's something that, like, they do every day, but they don't know that that annoys you.
Speaker 1:Mm, hmm.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, you know, and your friends like well, they better stop doing that.
Speaker 1:You know wow, Look at you, dude.
Speaker 2:But you know it's just like it can also be one sided, or like you know guys can be. Guys are always just like man, fuck that bitch. You know like, yeah, why. You know like maybe she's not doing anything wrong and you guys are just hyping up a dude to be like you know what? Yeah, I don't know, because I don't know why I'm going to these accents either.
Speaker 1:Sorry, it's fine I'm really enjoying them. Yeah, I appreciate it, thanks. I hear what you're saying, though, and not because then it's just a cycle of refusing to sit inside of that vulnerability and intimacy within the partnership to get through the conflict, and then also creating like ideas within these other relationships that you have about your partner themselves. That is actually inaccurate or just solely one-sided, because the people that you're going to, of course, they want to support you. I would hope that you have friendships in your life that would go. If you're venting about me, or venting or off-boarding anything, and they're like you know, like I know you and Brie, or like I know Brie, like maybe give you play devil's advocate with you. One beautiful thing that I do enjoy is that you are somebody who will sit inside of your friendships and be like well, what about this man? Yeah, consider this option.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, because you also recognize that in relationships there's there's more than just one side.
Speaker 1:It's not just like it's not minimizing the situation that you're going through, it's just also taking into consideration that it's not the whole of it, it's not the entirety of the issue at hand, and it's beautiful to have those relationships and foster those types of relationships. So it's not always going towards your partner or not always sitting in between the two of you. Right, like we need a community. Right, like the reliance on the partner is just, it's a lot, it can, and I don't know if it necessarily fosters interdependence or more codependence.
Speaker 1:So being able to have relationships outside of the main, like your partnership, also helps you understand how to foster interdependence within those relationships. It helps you learn how to foster, like managing multiple feelings with inside of all of these different relationships and like maybe just building stronger awareness around what's important for you, value-wise. Right, how you talk to your partner, how you talk about your partner, how you show up in friendships versus partnership, how you, right, I don't know If you stay inside of integrity when you are in friendship with other people right, you and I had an issue and you went to your friends and was, like you know, breeze me an asshole, breeze this, breeze that, and you're constantly just dumping about me onto your friends and like they might know me. They might not. I actually know all of your friends, but it's fine, like you know um any of those fuckers.
Speaker 1:I'm just kidding, yeah like if that's what you were constantly doing. It also is a representation of who you are and then who we are, as a relationship.
Speaker 1:Yep, yep. You know, like also choosing wisely on who, using the discernment to be like this is how I'm going to talk about my person with other people Like I can utilize these friendships as a way to work out how I'm feeling, so that maybe I don't then offboard all of like the harsh feelings that I'm having about this situation onto my partner, because, also, maybe they understand you differently, you know, maybe they understand you more like in those aspects. So I don't know, I think it's beneficial. I also just don't just be mindful of how it's done.
Speaker 2:I hear that the one thing I think is interesting about our society is that we love to tell people, like if you have an issue with your friend, or like, oh you're, you know me and my friend are fighting me and my best friend are fighting. It's always that thing of like, well, you should go make it up, you should go talk to talk to your best friend. Or you feel the urge to be like hey man or man or hey girl, whatever, maybe like hey, I didn't like that, I had this issue with you, but for some reason in relationships we still think it's okay to talk shit outside of the relationship. Instead of going to our partner and being like I don't enjoy that, I don't think that's okay. Like our initial reaction is to go to our friend and talk shit, or go to our friend and be like I'm just having a rough time, instead of going to our partner.
Speaker 2:It's like when it's your best friend or a friend or someone, it's like you'll go right to them and be like hey, you know, as we get older especially, it's like hey, that was not cool, oh, you know. Or hey, we need to grab beer because I want to talk about like hey, that wasn't cool. But we don't do that with our partner. We don't sit there and tell our partner like hey, I didn't really, you know, I didn't really enjoy how you said that to me, or I didn't really enjoy how you did that, or I didn't really enjoy me doing that, you know? Yeah, I just think that's interesting it is.
Speaker 1:It is interesting, I mean, because it's really vulnerable.
Speaker 1:What you're choosing to do, when you don't bring issues or things that could be detrimental to the relationship, is you're refusing to sit inside of intimacy because you care more about how you feel versus the integrity of the relationship. You care more about how you feel versus the integrity of the relationship. You care more about just off-boarding all of your feelings and getting it all out than actually like sitting inside of the relationship and finding resolution with it. I'm not saying blowing off steam is not helpful and if it can be brought back into the relationship, if you can go and have that beer like you were talking about earlier and then come back and sit in the relationship and be like I went and had a beer because I'm really struggling with this situation within our relationship, if you can go and have that beer like you were talking about earlier and then come back and sit in the relationship and be like I went and had a beer because I'm really struggling with this situation within our relationship, we need to talk about it.
Speaker 2:Awesome.
Speaker 1:But like abusing the other option to not have to face the vulnerability and the intimacy that comes with actually having to confront things within the relationship. That's not helpful right that's the hard part and, yes, we do normalize it. We do normalize just like shit talking about our partners to our friends and then not actually having the fucking balls or the ovaries to come and sit and say like this is how I'm feeling you're right yeah because it's hard right.
Speaker 2:I just think it's interesting because we love to make up, we love to do makeups with our friends, who we don't probably see every day, but we won't try to make up our relationship, who we're probably with at least some part of every single day.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean it's kind of like this idea where it's like the higher the stakes, the greater the consequences and greater the reward. So it's like the relationship. Those are higher stakes there, so to bring conflict to the forefront and communicate about it can have higher consequences and also higher reward. Yeah, it's uncomfortable again, like you said, if you see the person every day to sit inside of that conflict Right?
Speaker 1:It's uncomfortable again. Like you said, if you see the person every day to sit inside of that conflict Right face to face all the time, versus maybe you see a friend once every couple weeks or once a month and you bring it up to them, you have that. All of that space in between, sure, to sit with it and to like Off-board all those emotions or figure out a way to like Sit with what you're feeling so that you don't bring it into the next time you meet, is different when you're with the person every single day.
Speaker 2:If I see you every single day and we're sitting inside a conflict, that's hard right if we don't have to talk about it I just think it's funny too, because, like most of the time, it's about ego, most of the time it's about like well, that other person didn't think they were wrong or doesn't see it from the other side, or doesn't want to say I'm sorry, yeah, or doesn't even want to admit that they were wrong right, you know right, so it's like yeah and even outside of like am I wrong?
Speaker 1:it's like ultimately, how did it make you feel?
Speaker 1:yeah because you can sit inside of wrong and right all day long, but that's actually not going to even. It's not going to move the meter. It's not going to move the meter towards again building that bridge as opposed to building that wall. Sitting inside of who's right and wrong is literally just putting more bricks into building that wall. Understanding, like how did this make you feel? And apologizing for your partner sitting for doing something that caused your partner to sit inside of uncomfortable, really hard, painful feelings, and being apologetic towards that. That's building the wall. That's not sitting inside of right or wrong.
Speaker 2:That's building the wall or building the bridge.
Speaker 1:Excuse me, that's building the bridge.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I mean, I get that, but I still think there are times when it's right and wrong. Yeah, Like if you're, if you have a shitty day and you're taking it out on your partner, that's wrong. Yeah, I'm sorry, that's still. I hear what you're saying about building a wall, but I still think that that is. I get it you know, yeah, I mean, but there are times I just feel like there are situations and circumstances where it's right and wrong.
Speaker 2:I was wrong to do that, I was. You know, I was wrong to do that. It's mainly not even like right as in like you were right, I was wrong. It was just like I was wrong to do that. I think it's an ego thing of being like I was wrong, not, you were right. And I think that's where a lot of times we get into that, where it's always a negative has to like. If there's a negative, there's a positive side. It's not about that, it's just I was wrong. I was wrong to do that. I shouldn't have done that. I shouldn't have lashed out, I shouldn't have done that. Is it the fact of like because I did that, they were right in the scenario? No, it's just I was wrong. But once you admit that and you can say like I'm sorry about that, I shouldn't have lashed out on you and, you know, maybe the other person forgives you.
Speaker 2:I still think that that's a communication building brick to a bridge, maybe not a wall. No, it's empty, okay. Brick to a bridge, not. Maybe not a wall, no, it's empty, okay. Yeah, my eyes were like what the I know. So I think that's it. That's kind of what I was saying, you know, because I hear you with the wall. Yeah, absolutely. I think that there are certain scenarios of not thinking it in the right or wrong sense. Yeah, it's a good way to put it. I think I was talking about more like people's ego, on, on, on them being like I'm not wrong. How am I wrong, right?
Speaker 1:Wasn't wrong, and if they're always desiring to sit in the right, then how can they ever see that what they did was hurtful or harmful to the relationship?
Speaker 2:Right, okay, so it's yeah it's, I hear, that I lashed out on this person. Was that right or wrong?
Speaker 1:Or wrong.
Speaker 2:It was just like that wasn't right. That wasn't right. I shouldn't have lashed out so clearly. There is a right or wrong. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:It just doesn't mean that your partner is like the correct one or they win, or something.
Speaker 2:I think that's always this thing about, yeah, winning and losing, Right and wrong, winning and losing. I feel like our minds go to that in relationships. It's like I lost because I apologized.
Speaker 1:What? That's a really great point. You know, what I mean. I lost because I apologized.
Speaker 2:I lost because I apologized? I don't think so. Your real loss is if you don't apologize and your relationship crumbles. That's the real loss is, if you don't apologize and your relationship crumbles. That's the real loss. Yeah, the win is you guys coming together and communicating together and if you were wrong in this situation, apologizing and then you guys making up. That's a win.
Speaker 1:Well, because what it's doing is looking at the relationship as teammates and collaborators versus opponents. Right. If you're constantly trying to win against your partner, they're your opponent. Right if it's like you look at the relationship, like as an its entity itself. Right, there's always three in the relationship you, the other in the relationship at whole. And if you're looking at the relationship as like its own team, of course you want what's best for the team.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know Right.
Speaker 1:There's just no. You're not. There's no opponent. The opponent is the shitty thing that you do the egos.
Speaker 2:Ooh, that's good, yeah, that's true For you and I.
Speaker 1:I think it's been really beautiful to not sit inside of you being all the things for me all the time, Mm-hmm, you being all the things for me all the time. I think it's interesting how being in a relationship with you has helped me grow into being like I feel safe enough to have relationships outside of you that are so important to me, and you aren't like threatened by it. You aren't like this takes away from our relationship.
Speaker 1:Because I think that can also be another thing that ends up happening. You, you know, it's nice to be in a space where I think there is a lot of interdependence now, and it wasn't always easy to get to this space and we had lots of conversations yeah. Yeah, we had fights.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And not just me. I know I'm speaking and I'd like for you to share too, but it has never lessened our relationship, you not having to be all the things for me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, same.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Same.
Speaker 1:I think it actually has given me more confidence in our relationship.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for you not having to be all the things for me, I think it's, I think it's helped us and being able to openly communicate about, like what's what's going on. I think it's been good to have have the um ability to go out and talk to friends and go out and, like you know, call or even call people like, hey, dude, I had this. This was so stupid, you know, this was so dumb of my day, like traffic or whatever it may be. Whatever I'm just saying like, whatever it may be, um, this was stupid. But then also having the ability to you know, maybe it's like, if I'm on the phone, you walk in. You're like, what are you talking?
Speaker 2:Maybe it's like, if I'm on the phone, you walk in, you're like what are you talking about? And it's like, oh, I'll tell you in a second. But I think, bringing it back to the relationship, it's nice because I feel like it brings us more open to be like, hey, I didn't appreciate that, I didn't appreciate you doing that to me. I didn't appreciate you saying that, you didn't appreciate me saying that, well, you're right, okay, I hear you. Or, or, or, like I said, the things of like us going on a walk and you letting me vent and just being like okay that's it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm done. Thank you, yeah.
Speaker 2:But then also letting like. I feel like the one thing I've loved is you saying you letting us thrive in our independency apart from each other. Like, go Get out, go hang out with friends, I don't want you to be here right now Nice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, or like us taking trips or you taking trips. That's beautiful, you know, and that's. I think that grows with a relationship, but it's being comfortable and knowing where you're at in a relationship. I don't think that we would have been there. I don't think we either one of us would feel as comfortable in our relationship if both of us didn't do the work, if both of us didn't weren't on the same page yeah, and consistently looked at anything outside of each other as threatening, right or right harmful to us.
Speaker 1:It's more like if all of these things make you happier, why wouldn't I want that for you? Why?
Speaker 2:would I take that away from you?
Speaker 1:yeah yep, and that's a really beautiful way to put it too. Why would I take that away from you? Yep yep yeah, I love that baby absolutely.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think it's healthy in a relationship for other people to like have a friend that they talk to outside of their relationship about other problems Maybe it's a coworker have hobbies, have hobbies, go have coffee, go get coffee on. I have a friend. Let's just say, like in a relationship, they have a friend that they go have coffee with on Saturday morning, you know, or.
Speaker 1:I don't love going to dive bars. You love going to dive bars.
Speaker 2:Sure, I just like going to bars, but yeah, right, you love going to dive bars.
Speaker 1:Sure, I just like going to bars. But yeah, right, I don't love I could give two shits about golf. Right, you have your friends that you go play golf with Absolutely, absolutely. Again, community does help a relationship. It doesn't necessarily have to be like your own little entity and you have to now just like, disengage from the entire world. Yeah, that's not helpful. No, that's actually super detrimental. I would think. Absolutely, except for I am your bestest friend in the world, in all the world, in all the lands.
Speaker 2:The only, the only best friend. Coffee in the morning, coffee in the morning.
Speaker 1:You don't have any left. You want some? I'm empty.
Speaker 2:Thanks See, this is awesome. Avocado Thanks, avocado. This is also a great relationship, would you just let?
Speaker 1:me drink your coffee, because I'm drinking a black and I don't put any creamer in it. Gulp, yeah, all right. Well, I love you. Make sure this comes back. I love you.
Speaker 2:I think my leg almost went asleep, I don't know.
Speaker 1:How does it go? I can't do it.
Speaker 2:I tried. I love when you whistle.