Mating and Relating
Where curiosity meets conversation! Mating and Relating is bringing the real, the taboo and the relatable to the table in love, sex and relationships!
I’m Bri and my mission for the M&R Podcast is to be a safe space to explore the nuances of relationships and sex. We are connective beings meant to nourish and embrace our erotic nature with ourselves and with others. Whether platonic, romantic, monogamy, multi-gamy or somewhere in between, we all desire to live and feel fully expressed, safely loved and well f*cked; specifically in the ways that nurture and expand our individual versions of self and intimacy.
Each week I’ll aim to normalize the convo and refine the stigmas around sex and love through candid chats, personal experiences, educated segments and empowering tidbits to show you just how relatable your desires and situations actually are!
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Mating and Relating
Are You Loving or Loathing Your Partner? The Silent Signals of Relationship Breakdown
Ask Bri! Got a question? Send it over and listen out for a response during the following episode!
The Four Horsemen of relationship doom—criticism, contempt, defensiveness, and stonewalling—can predict relationship failure when they become dominant patterns between partners. We explore these destructive behaviors and why contempt may be the most dangerous, creating a filter where everything your partner does becomes irritating.
• Contempt is particularly destructive as it creates a negative lens through which you view your partner
• Experiencing the Four Horsemen occasionally doesn't doom a relationship—living in these patterns does
• The "cat syndrome" describes wanting attention then rejecting it when received
• Bids for affection are small requests for connection that need proper responses
• Rejection of affection bids can feel deeply personal when not communicated properly
• The foundation of healthy relationships is always clear, direct communication
• Partners can't read minds—articulating needs prevents misunderstandings and hurt feelings
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They say that if relationships exhibit these four behaviors, it's doomed.
Speaker 2:Really yeah, wow. You started saving things on your Instagram.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I started saving things on my Instagram for us to talk about, but it was a while back. It's literally the folder is called Stuff to Talk About.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Because I wanted to talk about it with you. I knew at some point that we were going to about it with you. I knew at some point that we were going to do something like this.
Speaker 2:You knew at some point.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I am Sorry. Do you have enough rum?
Speaker 2:I do have enough rum, yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Coffee in the morning, ding Fresh cup. Yeah, this is good coffee.
Speaker 1:This is a really great coffee. Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. Okay, so the Four Horsemen are. Are you ready?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:They are Criticism, contempt, defensiveness and Stonewalling.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Criticism Contempt.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Criticism, Contempt, Stonewalling.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And and Defensiveness.
Speaker 1:And and defensiveness.
Speaker 2:And defensiveness.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Interesting.
Speaker 1:They say that if relationships exhibit these four behaviors, it's doomed.
Speaker 2:Really yeah, wow Contempt.
Speaker 1:Contempt's a really hard one to get past though. Contempt, contempt is a really hard one to get past, though, because, like the minute you hold your partner or even anybody, but particularly your partner in contempt, it's really really difficult to come back from that, because then everything they do is irritating. Everything they do.
Speaker 2:You're just like why their laugh is irritating all of it. Yeah, they can do something nice and it can be irritating. Yeah, it's like why are you doing this? I feel like. I feel like, uh, when they portray like the downfall of relationships in movies it's always contempt, oh for sure, you know it's never like. I mean, sometimes it's stonewalling and sometimes it's uh, of course, uh, some of the other ones, but contempt, I feel like, is always the one you know, yeah, it's always like they're always around.
Speaker 2:They're just, you know, yeah, it's always like they're always around. They're just annoying me, you know, it's always that.
Speaker 1:It's like when you get to that point of contempt in the relationship, is there coming back?
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:That's why I feel like we haven't met that yet. I haven't met that with you.
Speaker 2:I've met irritation Contempt.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I hope not, because we're not doomed.
Speaker 2:No we're not. No, okay, good, the four horsemen aren't in our sights yet.
Speaker 1:But I've definitely had criticism Not yet, but just aren't in our sights.
Speaker 2:Yeah, gosh.
Speaker 1:Yet, yet Never. Hopefully, yeah, hopefully, not yeah. So criticism, contempt, defensiveness and then stonewalling. Definitely I've criticized you. For sure I've been defensive, you've gotten defensive.
Speaker 2:And I've Criticized. Yeah, I think it's about like that's all it is in the relationship. Yeah, you know what I mean. I feel like you can have those things. There's moments that you could have. I feel like with those things, yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, I think it's living in it, though maybe, maybe that's the whole point of it is like when those are just that's all your relationship is and you live in that, maybe that's when it's doomed. Oh for sure, because as a human being, how can you not? I feel like, how can you not be defensive? How can you not stonewall in certain areas? Maybe, maybe not too. Maybe also it's like do they talk about it in? Maybe it's also like on a grand scale, know, not like um, I want chick-fil-a. Well, I don't want chick-fil-a because of this. Well, I'm getting chick-fil-a. Stonewalling. I don't know if that's, that's not totally can you try that?
Speaker 1:maybe we should go through what the four wordsmen are because you don't want it.
Speaker 2:You're annoying me. I'm going to stonewall you. Defense, try me again. Yeah, shield, I love that.
Speaker 1:Not stonewalling, babe, that's great. Stonewalling is when you literally become a stonewall. There's no receptivity, there's no like.
Speaker 2:I feel like that's the end though that's when you know it's getting close to the end. Right Is stonewalling.
Speaker 1:Yeah, some people use stonewalling. I'll do.
Speaker 2:Actually, it is true, I'll stonewall. If you don't want what I want to eat, I won't talk to you, whatever.
Speaker 1:That's just it, I'm just kidding, you don't do that to me.
Speaker 2:I know I don't, I'm just kidding. I was trying to relate my chick-fil-a thing back to it, to stonewalling. That was horrible. Yeah, that's hilarious, I'm an idiot.
Speaker 1:No, you just didn't know what that meant.
Speaker 2:But stonewalling is a byproduct of like, yeah, criticism, defensiveness, contempt you don't want to right.
Speaker 1:It's a lot of them, it's all of them. You don't want to offer up any anything, you don't want to show any emotion. You just are removed entirely from the situation because it's no longer worth your time and your energy yeah so we could be sitting here. Having like something like this would definitely not occur.
Speaker 2:The energy and effort it goes into sitting here and talking to you, like that would not be a thing do you think, though, that that's, that's when you know that it's over, though is is the stonewalling, because why would? Why would stonewalling come before, like, defensiveness? Why would stonewalling come before contempt? I feel like those would come into play, and then stonewalling would maybe be last.
Speaker 1:I guess it would also depend on how people cope with their feelings and the lack of being heard or feeling appreciated within their relationship. Sometimes those are just byproducts of not feeling accepted or heard or loved or cared for. You just kind of shut down right, Depending on how their relational woundings come to play. I feel like it's an interesting thing to talk about, though, with you Not feeling like I'm in a place of, of doomed yeah, of damned Gloom and doom of the relationship. Gloom and doom, yeah, damnation I just said of the relationship.
Speaker 2:Relationship.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's 11-11. Make a wish Go.
Speaker 2:Still making the wish.
Speaker 1:You don't want to know what I wish for.
Speaker 2:I was just about to say my wish. I was going to tell you my wish. Tell me, your wish it was for food.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, I'm so hungry.
Speaker 2:What was your wish?
Speaker 1:That you don't talk over me anymore. That's really good.
Speaker 2:It's funny, I was just wishing For food. I was thinking, like man. I wish I had Chick-fil-A breakfast Like a bagel or no, just like a bagel or like something from Henri's Bakery.
Speaker 1:Oh.
Speaker 2:Sounds good, huh.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, they have such good.
Speaker 2:Christmas Also, we talk about Chick-fil-A. And it's Sunday and you always, we always talk about Chick-fil-A. I feel like everyone does this across the nation, because everyone thinks or talks about Chick-fil-A on a Sunday.
Speaker 1:You know what? What a great topic, though, to want what you can't have.
Speaker 2:So want what you can't have? Yeah, what's the how is that topic? What?
Speaker 1:do you. I feel like that's a lot of the things that happen, that occur within relationship, which is like this desire to want what you can have or what's not being given to you, right Like sometimes I like desire your attention all the time, and then when you give it to me, I'm like never mind I call that cat mentality I like it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like it feels like oh, baby's not giving me all the attention I want. Then I'm like I want it and I go for it. And then you start to give it to me and I'm like oh, never mind, then you don't give me attention. I'm like give me, give me, give me yeah, I think similarly.
Speaker 2:It's like uh, I want you like okay for instance no, like I'll put in a.
Speaker 2:There's other perspectives too, of like I want to go out and let's just, I'm gonna use golf as an example. Yeah, I want to go out and play golf and I want you to want me to go out and play golf. But then when you're like, yeah, I don't go go play golf, like go play golf, I'm like what? No, not like that, but like more so, like you don't want me, you don't want me here, you only watch tv. You want me to be around you. You know, maybe that's a weirdo thing, a weirdo mentality, but you know, it's like similar but then I go play golf, but then you go play golf.
Speaker 1:No, but I think that ties into the same thing, though like it definitely.
Speaker 2:I think it's like you want. Maybe the perspective is you want your partner to want you to be happy or for you to do something, and then when they are like, yeah, do it. You're like kind of like what?
Speaker 1:Are there other motives for why you want me to go away? Yeah?
Speaker 2:Do you feel like that? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Maybe, it's like I want you to want me when I want you to want me, and if you don't want me when I want you to want me, then I don't want you Right. I don't think I can say that again. Don't make me say that again.
Speaker 2:What we need to do is we need to take that and do one of those memes where it's like the all the the math thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the math thing.
Speaker 2:That's so good. Um, I call it cat syndrome, why? Well, I think of cats and the cats that I've known. They will come up and want they'll like rub against you and want you to pet them. And then, if you do pet them, sometimes I'll bite you oh, yeah, you know it's like kind of like I want you, but no, I don't want you to stay away from me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like that, you know. And then do you think it makes you want the cat more because they don't want you. But no, I don't want you to stay away from me. Yeah, it's like that, you know. And then do you think it makes you want?
Speaker 2:the cat more because they don't want you sometimes.
Speaker 1:I mean, I guess, if you're a cat person, maybe or if you're not like secure in yourself, you're like my validation is only there when what I don't want wants me. What I'm tying back to relationships, I know.
Speaker 2:But what like if you did. I don't think it's like one of those things where what you were talking about is like I want, basically, I want you to pay attention to me, right, yeah. And then when you do, it's like uh, do I feel like, oh, I want to pay attention to her? No, I don't feel that way. Oh, I kind of noticed over 10 years of marriage that it's more so like she wants attention. Oh, no, never mind, she doesn't that's.
Speaker 1:Another thing too is bids for affection. Sorry, I know I'm switching gears again, but it is day, but it's not because it makes sense. Okay, in my brain Bids for affection. One of the things that also can harm relationships are when partners bid for affection and they're not received, whether that is a conscious not offering of the bid or not responding to the bid, or just because there's an obliviousness to.
Speaker 2:Explain bids of affection. To me, for a bid for affection is like, or to our.
Speaker 1:To Explain bids of affection to me For a bid for affection is like or to our audience Explain bids of affection.
Speaker 2:I'm going to start saying that instead of me feeling like a dummy. Explain bids of affection.
Speaker 1:You don't feel like you're my dummy.
Speaker 2:I know, I know.
Speaker 1:It's just a conversation, yeah explain bids of affection. Bids for affection.
Speaker 2:Bids for affection?
Speaker 1:yeah, Bids for affection are like, let's just say, a simple bid for affection would be like we're sitting on the couch and maybe like I go oh, I'm cold and I like kind of cuddle next to you, but there's no like move in towards me you just kind of sit there and are just like not saying that you do that, but I'm right if that was the case, like I'm like, oh yeah I started cuddling next to you and you just kind of like stay and watch at the tv yeah, no, I.
Speaker 2:I laugh because I've seen that like in person, like I've seen couples do that yeah something like that, where it's like the like.
Speaker 1:responding to that bid would be like come here and like putting your arm around me or like cuddling, like putting your hand on me and cuddling me up, or like let's go, like grabbing a blanket and, like you know, like to create that closeness. There are some times where people the bid for affection is just a bid for affection Like can I have a kiss? Yeah, Like you know that's sad, you know, or just like there's no response to it.
Speaker 2:There's no desire to reciprocate the bid, right? Do you think that some people, though in general are just, they're not that type of person?
Speaker 1:like affectionate yeah, maybe maybe so like for instance.
Speaker 2:I'll do the first example bits. So if somebody's like I'm cold and like tries to cuddle up, maybe that person is like just really engaged in whatever they're watching right um, and so it's just kind of like an obliviousness maybe, yeah, I think. Some people are oblivious, though, to like certain things, or if they need more direct communication. I feel like the kiss one is it depends on maybe where, where you're at or where where it's, maybe how it's asked or where it's asked.
Speaker 2:It's like I feel like if you're at home and they just say no yeah maybe that's another thing to sit down and talk about, like why, why not if you're out in public? Maybe they're not a pda person, I don't know, I don't. I feel like as you get older you're kind of like I don't who gives a shit, but some people do, some people do care about, like the I don't know how they're perceived or whatever maybe access. I'm just saying there are people maybe out there.
Speaker 1:I'm playing the devil's advocates because yeah just because for conversation I'm just saying yeah, um, that or that, feel that way right, um, and I wonder too if like the lack of reciprocity when it comes to the bids for affection, maybe if it's more of like it's an active denial, right? If it's like somebody just like comes in and tries to hold your hand and there's just like limp fingers like they don't want to engage in that. Or like somebody like puts their face up for like a kiss and it's just like yes.
Speaker 1:You know, it's like almost like an active denial when there's, or like, let's just say, when you come up to me and I'm in the kitchen and you like wrap your arms around me and like I shrug you off, or something like that no-transcript.
Speaker 2:You feel rejected, denied, absolutely. I think it goes back to what we always talk about is communication. If, for instance, you brought up the fact of being in the kitchen, maybe you're hot. You're already hot, bothered hot, you're already hot, bothered you're doing stuff.
Speaker 1:You're cooking not hot and bothering in a good way, though not good way, but you're hot and bothered.
Speaker 2:Slash bothered, yeah annoyed um, and you're cooking, uh, me doing that is just an irritation on top of that. But it's not your. It's not that you're irritated with me, you're just hot so you don't want to hug or you don't want that affection right now. But they can be communicated instead of just shrugged off. It can be. Maybe I love you, I'm just hot right now. Maybe I love you, I'm just I can. I can we please hug later, or whatever. Let me step away. Um the kiss, that one like I love you so much, I'm, I'm just not. I love you. I don't know how to do the kiss one. I don't know.
Speaker 1:I don't have an example of why I wouldn't want to kiss you if I want to do that, but.
Speaker 2:But it goes back to maybe it's like I'm, I'm not, I'm, I feel sorry, I don't know. I'm trying hard to play devil's advocate for that one. I have no explanation for that one. I don't know.
Speaker 1:You don't have to play devil's advocate if you don't believe in it.
Speaker 2:I know, but I'm trying to. Anyways, communication is key. I don't know how you're going to communicate the one where it's like go in for a kiss, like that. I don't know how you communicate that one.
Speaker 1:But communication, well, it's like somebody goes in for a kiss and then they get the cheek instead.
Speaker 2:How do you communicate that, though? What are you going to say? That's like I don't want to kiss you right now. You just say that.
Speaker 1:Maybe I don't feel like kissing right now.
Speaker 2:But why? Why don't you want to kiss me?
Speaker 1:Maybe that's a whole other talk though. True, but I could also look at it like maybe I'm irritated that day, maybe I'm not feeling very well that day, and I know the affection is going to desire. There's going to be a desire for more with that affection, or desire for intimacy that I'm not willing to give because there's an energy in intimacy. So let's just say, you come up to me for a kiss and I'm just having a really shitty day and I don't want to kiss you back and I just kind of give you my cheek as like I'm offering myself here and I just don't want exactly the way you want and I'm not angry, I just don't want it. Sure, but I also feel like or and I also feel like that can feel like rejection, especially if it's not communicated. Maybe it's one of those things where it's like um, I'm not feeling good, I don't feel like given like this type of affection today?
Speaker 1:Or can you just hug me instead, like yeah, I hear that, I, I hear you. I think that yeah, I'm trying to play devil's advocate too I know, you know, I hear that and also it could literally just be. I don't want to kiss them that's true.
Speaker 2:That's true. I think that's sad. Maybe your breast stinks straight morning breath.
Speaker 1:Yeah, maybe you need to put some lipstick on, because I don't want no questions on the thing.
Speaker 2:It's hot, as you say that I lick my lips.
Speaker 1:It's both of us did.
Speaker 2:I was like lips chap, um, absolutely. I mean I just what I was the. The point that I was also trying to say, and what I think is funny, is it's all about communicationing. Bits for affection can be dealt with in a way, but it needs to be communicated.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it could be one of those things too where we don't think to ask for permission when it comes to affection with our partners. Right, A lot of the time people will be like why do I have to ask for permission to love on my partner? Why? Do I have to ask for permission to be with my partner physically. Ultimately, we do feel some type of ownership or some type of like-.
Speaker 2:Like you, have justification to do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because we're together, so of course I should be able to love on you and kiss on you whenever. I want without asking for the permission to do so. So in those situations where it's like maybe you are offering bids for affection and they're getting rejected or they're not being received in the way that you want the tactic could be. Can I have?
Speaker 2:a hug, can I?
Speaker 1:have a kiss and seeing how being approached in that way where it doesn't feel more obligatory from your partner, but offered to your partner how they would receive it. And maybe the bid, because also sometimes, depending on how you enjoy affection, like you were talking about earlier baby, you were saying like maybe they don't recognize the bid unless it's actually presented to them very matter-of-factly. Can I have a sure? Can I have a kiss?
Speaker 2:yeah, you know, some people, I'm sure, are that way yeah I think it's interesting when people get upset about like why do I always have have to ask? And it's like but I can't read your mind. I need you to tell me how you feel. My mind is somewhere else. Right now. My mind is like thinking about maybe a job, golf, yeah, absolutely. Whatever it might be, my mind is somewhere else. So I need you to tell me where your mind's at so I can get on that same wavelength.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And maybe I'm not there right now, maybe my mind is out. It's happened to us for sure. But you have to tell that person like I want this. You can't just expect people to know what you want. Yeah, want, yeah. It's funny to me because it all every time we communicate and talk about certain scenarios that happen, they always deal with communication right.
Speaker 1:What deals with, oh like, a lack of communication or miscommunication, Any relationship.
Speaker 2:Where I feel like someone has an issue, it's because communication is not there or it's because it's not communicated, or it's because they don't have their you know the um. Basically, I guess those are the only two. Lack of communication or it's not communicated the right way. Miscommunication, or it's miscommunicated. It's. That is like the if, if a relationship was a, that is legitimately the foundation. Coffee in the morning.
Speaker 1:Pew.
Speaker 2:I'm going to get more coffee. You want more coffee.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:You want no more coffee, say bye, bye, camera.