Mating and Relating
Where curiosity meets conversation! Mating and Relating is bringing the real, the taboo and the relatable to the table in love, sex and relationships!
I’m Bri and my mission for the M&R Podcast is to be a safe space to explore the nuances of relationships and sex. We are connective beings meant to nourish and embrace our erotic nature with ourselves and with others. Whether platonic, romantic, monogamy, multi-gamy or somewhere in between, we all desire to live and feel fully expressed, safely loved and well f*cked; specifically in the ways that nurture and expand our individual versions of self and intimacy.
Each week I’ll aim to normalize the convo and refine the stigmas around sex and love through candid chats, personal experiences, educated segments and empowering tidbits to show you just how relatable your desires and situations actually are!
Invite your friends, your partner, your mother or your platonic lovers and join the convo everyone is begging to have more of!
Mating and Relating
Reclaiming Love and Commitment Through Divorce, Grief and Cultural Conditioning with Vasavi Kumar
Ask Bri! Got a question? Send it over and listen out for a response during the following episode!
Vasavi Kumar, personal coach and business mentor, opens up for the first time about her desire to be married again after divorce and navigating the cultural stigma that surrounds it.
• Giving voice to desires we've been downplaying
• How cultural stigmas can affect our willingness to express what we want
• Reframing resentment as "misdirected reclamation" of our deepest desires
• The way grief can clarify what truly matters in life
• Finding the courage to say what we want even when our voice shakes
• Visualization as a practice to get comfortable with receiving what we want
• The importance of taking concrete steps toward our desires
• How living according to our own values frees us from others' opinions
• Recognizing that strong, independent women can also desire partnership
• The difference between failed relationships and valuable learning experiences
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IG & TikTok @MyNameIsVasavi
LinkedIn @ Vasavi Kumar
Work With Vasavi
vasavikumar.com/sayitoutloud - link to SAY IT OUT LOUD group
Get Her Book!
vasavikumar.com/orderthebook - link to my book launch
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Stay sexy, Stay curious,
Love, Bri
Today I am so excited to be joined by Vasavi Kumar. She is my personal coach and biz mentor and a powerhouse therapist turned consultant for women in leadership. And she's not just all of those accolades she's also an incredible human the most authentic, most consistent, most self-championing and wise woman I have actually had the pleasure of working with, and I cannot say enough amazing things about her. I met Vasavi on Instagram. Her work kept filtering through my feed and I loved her energy. It was something that I deeply resonated with immediately and at the time I had been looking for a career coach and a personal coach or mentor for months, and the universe really dropped her right in my DMs and she hit hard with my core reason for desiring a container for myself, and so I immediately joined her say it out loud coaching group and started working with her one-on-one, and it has been one of the best investments that I have made for myself. And our combo today is special because, out of all of the transparency that she offers online you know this if you follow her this is the first time Basavi has talked openly and publicly about her love life, and so I am grateful for her willingness to talk about her experience and perspective of mating and relating with myself and all of you here listening, and I am so positive that there will be those of you who resonate deeply.
Speaker 1:We dive into Vasavi's desire to be married again, her cultural stigmas around being divorced and childless and how it weighs on her relational life, how the passing of her father has cracked her open in every aspect and her perspective of what a successful woman means and the lessons of living your life out loud.
Speaker 1:This episode contains explicit language along with possible activating and triggering topics, so please listen at your own discretion.
Speaker 1:I am so excited to dive into this conversation Welcome, vasavi and welcome listeners an object that really represented a hidden part of us, or a part of us that we've been downplaying and to share a few answers to some prompts that you offer inside of that group, and I love that you also participate inside of our Say it Out Loud groups, I think, as a coach and a mentor, it is so beautiful the way that you show up and you involve yourself.
Speaker 1:It's not like you're just sitting on the outside or sitting on a pedestal going. This is my group and this is how I'm going to lead and I'm going to just guide you all. You are actually super invested, so I really love that, and the object that you brought was a ring that your sister made for you, and it represented this desire in you that you want to be married and or in a long-term commitment again. Will you share more about where this came from again? Will you share more about where this came from, where this desire started to really give voice? And if you want to give backstory, feel free, but I would love to know where this desire began for you again.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So my sister showed me this photo of this ring that she was making me. She had some diamonds and she wanted to upcycle them and do something with them, that she didn't want the diamonds anymore for herself, and she said I really want to make you a ring. I said, ok, I want it to be on my wedding finger, on my, on my, on my ring finger. You know, I call it my wedding finger, my ring finger. And it just got me thinking like man, I really do want to be either married or in a long term relationship.
Speaker 2:Yet I haven't decided that part yet, but I haven't really allowed myself to say that out loud, because I've been in an on again, off again relationship for seven years with someone. And yeah, yeah, people don't know that I've been in an on again, off again relationship with someone for seven years. We are currently in our off again phase right now, and so because of that, I have a lot of spaciousness to think about what I want for myself, like what is the vision for myself? And so when she made me that ring, I just really realized I'm like you know, this is so sweet, my sister's buying me this ring. But like, yes, I want it and it just sparked something inside of me I want. I want a ring again and not just a ring right, like it's not about the material, it's like I want what it symbolizes. I want commitment again. That's what I want, cause I'm I'm a Taurus. You're a Taurus, you get this, we are loyal as they come, we are committed, we are all in, we don't do half ass. And so for me, it's like it just sparked the part of me that loves commitment. I love to commit myself if it feels in alignment with what I am wanting in this season of my life. So that's really how it all started.
Speaker 2:I just realized, you know, I, I, I want to be remarried again. You know, I want to be married again. I was married when I was 28,. Very young, it feels very young. I started, I, I, I got together with my ex-husband when I was 22, when I was actually yeah, no, yeah, 20, 21 years old, and we were together for six years and then we got married and I loved being a wife and even saying that out loud feels weird, like I loved being a wife.
Speaker 2:Right, because I am a strong, I am an independent woman who says that they love being a wife. Like all these thoughts in my head were like I was conflicted, like oh, how can I be strong and independent and still be in a relationship? Right, because that's why our relationship didn't work in the first place. My husband and I we just kind of very much grew apart. But to answer your original question, this is you know, my sister buying me that ring really sparked something inside of me, the desire that I want to be back inside a marriage, union or in some sort of long term relationship. I just hadn't given myself the space to say it out loud, so here I am saying it today.
Speaker 1:I feel really grateful and honored that you were like. I've never done this publicly, and so to be vulnerable because that's also something that I feel like is part of your ethos is vulnerability and transparency and saying the thing out loud and taking the power over something that you really, really desire, and so I know that even in working with you, it's helped me so much just be able to name the things that maybe I'm so scared to name out loud, or something that I feel like people are going to judge me for. To judge me for or maybe there's a lot of societal or familiar conditioning around that says, hey, like I'm not allowed to have this thing or I'm not allowed to express this thing, or keeping this thing hidden in a way that feels like I'm truly hiding a part of me that I really, really want, and so for you to just be on the podcast and sharing this part of your life out loud to me is so wild and I feel so grateful that you're willing to be here and do that. And I find such resonance in your share about I want to be a wife. I think what you said about strong, ambitious, driven women don't go.
Speaker 1:I'm proud of the desire I have to be a wife.
Speaker 1:That puts us or that maybe in a way, sets us back a few decades and says but we've worked so hard to get out of this mindset and get out of this conditioning of this role, this gender ideology that says hey, as a woman, all you're supposed to do is show up as a wife and a mother and a family member and be supportive to somebody else who has the ambition, somebody else who has the drive to live a life of success. And I feel like you also owning the part of you as somebody who is very ambitious, as somebody who is, from my lens, very successful. To say I also desire to lean into this part of me is so inspiring and it resonates so deeply, because I met my current husband when I was 20. And I'm now 34 and we've been married and the cycle of life that takes place, of growing into my version of success, growing into my womanhood it feels nice to have another person, especially somebody that I admire, go. I desire this and it's okay to sit inside of both.
Speaker 2:Even hearing you say that, say it back to me about how me expressing this desire, how it sets us back. And then even just hearing you, you know, reflect back what I said, it feels so real inside of me to even say like, yes, I do want to be a wife again. I'm still not fully there yet. I want to be honest with you. There is a part of me that's like oh, are you sure you're, are you sure, are you sure you want to be a wife again? Do you remember what that was like? But when I think about when things were good in my marriage, they were very good. We had a great synergy, we had great rapport. We had a great relationship. We had a beautiful friendship. You know, we had a beautiful friendship. Not every single thing in our relationship worked Well. We hardly had any sex. That's the truth. We hardly had any sex, you know, especially in the last few years of our marriage.
Speaker 1:We were only married for three years. So do the math like we. You know we were only longer than marriage.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly so we did well as a couple. But then when we got together and we got married, we just had so many family expectations put on us. He was expected to take care of his family financially. There were a lot of secrets that were not really being discussed. So I was out of there. I said I'm not doing this anymore.
Speaker 2:I don't regret getting divorced. I think what I regret is not admitting to myself sooner that I want this again. I do want this. I just want this with another person. That's what I regret the most and I want to say that out loud, because I don't like living with regret and just saying that out loud just kind of dissipates the regret, even actually admitting that out loud. But I wish that I would have given myself the permission sooner to say I'm going to get back out there, I'm going to meet someone who's my person. But God had different plans for me. I met someone after my husband and I got divorced.
Speaker 2:That was not a healthy relationship. I was in that for four years and then, immediately after that, I met somebody else and got engaged and that's the seven year relationship that I've been on and off with and it's been. It's been hard. It's been really hard because when you're in an on again, off again relationship for seven years, it turns your entire world upside down and you start to lose vision and focus on what you really want. So where I am today is someone who is so crystal clear that she can't do the on again, off again thing again. Like I am, I can't do that anymore. Like I thought I could do that. I thought I was that girl Like, yeah, I could do this, on again, off again. That is not for me. I cannot do that. It is not for me.
Speaker 2:But it took me seven years to realize that I knew it sooner. I just didn't. I just didn't allow myself to express the desire out loud. That's what was really going on. Like I did know sooner that I wanted to be married again or wanted to be in a long term relationship again. I just didn't allow myself to admit it sooner. And I think that's why the work that we do inside the group is so important, inside the Say it Out Loud group. And what I say in my book is because these desires that go unexpressed, they just become background noise and then you wake up one day and you're like what the hell am I doing with my life? And that's kind of the moment that I had recently.
Speaker 1:And I think that you totally hit the nail on the head. There is there's this intuition that we fall so far away from and, especially in working with you, there is a leaning into intuition more because you offer such beautiful prompts and anybody here listening on the podcast. If you are not familiar with possibly's work, I I really hope that you lean in and follow her and look into her work, binge all of her stuff. There's so much wisdom and experience and expertise inside of the way that you show up online.
Speaker 1:Even if people don't decide to work with you which I really hope you do, because I'll say from personal experience, it's been one of the best investments that I've made for myself you will realize how far away from your intuition you are, and so when you talk about, I knew how I felt. I knew, even just over the last seven years, even in my prior marriage, that this wasn't for me. I think I would love for you to speak on that intuitive pull that we don't necessarily listen to and that we should. And how, from your experience and your expertise in this space, how would you initiate leaning in more into your intuition around what you know your heart's desire is what you know your intuition is calling you to do, and you can put it through a lens of the relational aspect if you'd like, but just maybe in general, like how do we go? How?
Speaker 2:do we do that? Well, there are many ways that you can go about it. I will share the way that I went about it. I noticed how resentful I started I was. I was starting to get I was starting to get resentful towards myself and I was starting to get really resentful towards married people. Just going to be really honest with you, I noticed and I don't like that feeling of resentment living inside my body. I use it as information. So, for everyone listening, use your emotions as information, right?
Speaker 2:I noticed that I was resentful and I was like, huh, that's so interesting Because I'm like, okay, my best friend is my sister. Right, my sister is my best friend. She's married, she has two kids. I'm not resentful towards her, I'm not jealous towards her, I'm happy for her that she has a great marriage. I'm so happy she has two wonderful kids. But I just noticed in general, I was like, oh, married people Right now, I just I just started noticing myself being that way and I was like, oh, we got to nip that in the bud.
Speaker 2:What is that really about? And when I got honest with myself and this is the key, Brianna when I got honest with myself about what I really wanted, I realized that resentment was actually just misdirected reclamation, Like I needed to reclaim that part of me, but it was misdirected. So, instead of actually reclaiming the part of me that wants to be in a long-term relationship or wants to be married again, it was actually, you know, alchemizing into resentment and I was like, no, we're not doing that anymore. What is this resentment trying to show me? Oh, it's trying to show me that you're fucking pissed off because you're not in a relationship like the way you used to be and you miss being in a relationship. You miss having a ride or die. You miss having someone who has your back and who you have their back. You miss doing life with somebody. That's what I realized, that's what I was resentful about, so it has nothing to do with anybody else. So, if you're listening and you've been pulled away from your intuition, look to see where you're the most resentful, because that will give you a lot of information about what you're not doing in your life and where you're not leading courageously in your life.
Speaker 2:Like it's really easy to be in a seven year on again, off again relationship. You just get off the Ferris wheel and you get back on the Ferris wheel. You just do it over and over. That shit is easy. You know what's hard Staying in it over and over that shit is easy. You know what's hard staying in a committed relationship that's hard.
Speaker 2:So I just noticed myself being like, where am I not leading courageously? Oh, I'm in this on again, off again. Seven year relationship and it's exhausting. And while it gives me some sense of comfort and familiarity like I was I started to get used to the comfort and familiarity of the on again, off again. That's not what I want, and so I had to get so rigorously honest with myself about what I want. What I want is partnership. What I want is a future. What I want is to build a life with somebody. I'm not saying right now, but definitely down the road, I'm 43, like my goal is by 45, by 45 years old. I want that again. You know I have two years to kind of just do my thing, just put myself out there. I'm very patient, Like I'm not in a rush to be in a relationship with anybody. But to answer your initial question, I looked at where I was most resentful and that resentment really showed me where in my life where I was not tuning into my intuition.
Speaker 1:Being able to reframe that. It's not somebody else. It's not somebody else's situation, it's not our projections of what we think other people are going through. It's really our internal world that is driving how we view everything, and I love that. You said what's hard is actually staying in a commitment, and, yes, I will agree and I will add to that because I believe that relationships are work. There is this narrative oh, that relationships are work, and some people are like they're not work, not if you're with the right person, and I call bullshit. Relationships are one of the hardest things you're going to do in life.
Speaker 2:It shows you who you are. It shows you where you limit yourself. It shows you where you limit others.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a hundred percent. And to say that I'm going to commit to one person in this sea of human beings that you could be beautifully in a relationship with, to say I choose you, I'm going to stay committed to you, I'm going to work through all of my shit with you. I'm going to be here to help you carry your baggage. I'm not going to carry your baggage for you, but I'm going to show up inside of this container with you, alongside you, and I'm going to love you as you grow and I'm going to love you as you change and you evolve, and I'm going to love the person you are now and I'm also going to be curious about the person you're becoming. That shit is hard and that shit is work.
Speaker 1:It's not just the hard work, it's the light work, it's the daily practices of showing up in love and relationship and partnership. That's what builds partnership. It's practice right. So I agree with you in that. Like it is staying in relationship, staying committed, staying true to the path that you and your person decide that you're going to go on together. This journey is work and it is hard, and also what's beautiful alongside of that is knowing when something is no longer for you, trusting that you actually have all the answers. So when you're in a situation of that getting on again and getting off again, there's something there, whether it's a relational pattern or a wounding that you haven't addressed, whether it's actually knowing that that person is not for you or this situation is not for you, even if it's for the moment.
Speaker 1:That's power too. That's hard, too, to choose. Like you said, in your first marriage he was a great guy. He just wasn't the one for you, and so to know that somebody is a good person or, yeah, a good person, but not the person that's for you is also a difficult choice to make. But trusting your intuition in that. And so everything that you said about leaning into, like where am I finding resentment? What is that information giving me? I think that's such a powerful lesson for people to understand to take the wisdom that you actually have and put it into action in a way that's going to benefit you in whatever.
Speaker 1:For this example, yes, it's relationally which is beautiful, and one thing is that you mentioned earlier that there were cultural stigmas and some subconscious conditioning around. Why now even expressing out loud that this is a desire that you have, kind of weighs on the relational expectation, or weighs on even the desire to express it, and so can you share with me and everybody? Listening more about those things.
Speaker 2:To understand what I'm about to say, you have to know my mother first. Okay, I have a very strong and independent mother who raised us both to not center our lives around men, okay, and she wanted us to always have our separate bank accounts. Do all you know, do that. You know, don't, don't, don't, merge your money with a man like this is what I was raised with, and so when I got married, in our culture it was kind of like that's your one shot. You got married, boss, and then you chose to get divorced. Who are you to say you want another relationship again? You already did it. You already did it right. So there's a little bit of like you have to understand about the South Asian culture and community where I come from. It is collectivist and it is very shame based For me to say again I want to be a wife, I want to be married. I can just imagine my mother saying to me and like she's not the reason why I've never said it. I don't want to put any sort of blame on her, she has nothing to do with this, this is totally a me problem but I can imagine saying this to my mother and she'd be like why You've already done that, you've already been married, like you don't need that, just be alone, right, there's power in being alone, literally words that my mother said to me there's strength in being alone. And so when I try to even express that, it's always met with that type of resistance, Like why do you need to get married again? So, just, even in our cultural, from our cultural point of view, it's kind of like as a woman, if you get divorced, it's kind of like as a woman, if you get divorced, it's over for you, it's damage. You're damaged goods at that point, you've already been used, you've already been used up, right? Who are you to say you want to get married again? And I'm here to say, if I want to get married again or be in a long term relationship again, I'm going to be in a long term relationship again.
Speaker 2:Divorce is not a death sentence and I've been treating it as such. I have definitely treated my divorce as kind of a death sentence for any future relationships. Like, oh well, that's, I guess that's just the end of it. I'm just going to be alone. But I, just as I've gotten older, as I've gotten sick and tired of the seven year on again, off again relationship. I'm just like no, I want to be in another relationship. I'm reclaiming this part of myself that I have hidden for so long, which is I do want to be in a long-term relationship again. Fuck, I might even want to be married again, right, like I want to be somebody's wife again.
Speaker 2:Even saying those words, I'm still. I still feel clumsy, kind of like, um, like a baby deer when they're learning how to walk and they kind of have, like Bambi legs. I still feel like that, even in having this conversation. I'm not, like you know, solid as a rock saying this, like I'm very clear in what I want, but I'm saying it even when my voice is shaky, and so what I want your listeners to understand is you can be scared and still say the thing that you want out loud. It doesn't take away from how much you want something and how much you desire something. So just because you may not sound the most confident or you might sound a little shaky when you say it, don't dismiss the things that you want just because the way you say it doesn't come off as perfect or polished or anything like that. So this is me showing up on your podcast, just being as honest as possible about this part of my life that I think I have definitely tucked away for way too long.
Speaker 1:You know, yeah, and I love that. Show up in the shaky. I mean, this is not a new lesson for me to hear from you, but maybe it is for anybody listening right. Show up in the shaky. Confidence is action, confidence is action and progress. Show up every day and the feelings will follow you, taking in your words the next best step that's one I that stays with me all the time is if I'm sitting in a space of uncertainty or sitting in a space of fear or doubt or negative self-talk or whatever it might be. It's what's my next best step, right, like what would vasavi say? Well, what would vasavi ask me?
Speaker 1:And I think it's so beautiful to see you here showing up so vulnerably and transparently, especially about this aspect of life, because I think what it does is it gives people permission to go.
Speaker 1:It's okay to show up in progress.
Speaker 1:It's okay to show up with a lot of things maybe stacked against me, with my conditioning, with my societal or familial or religious indoctrinations that say, like I can only go or forge, I can only go this path, but actually you can forge whatever path feels right and necessary for you.
Speaker 1:And I think something that I would love to reflect back to you is that, even with all of the cultural stigma that surrounds you, being divorced, right Unless even taken, not having children and as a woman, again going back to the very beginning of our conversation, to admit that we want these things, or to admit that we want an aspect of this, can set us back, and it really doesn't have to. We can always refine a message, we can always refine the roles that we're given. And for you, being somebody who's like, yes, I was divorced, yes, I don't have children, yes, I desire to be married, and maybe not even married in the way that everybody says you should be married, institutionally wise, but just committed to somebody have a best friend, have somebody to do life with, even if that doesn't lead to extended family, children et cetera, whatever.
Speaker 1:Because I find myself in that place of being like I love being married and I have two fur babes. I don't know if I ever want to have children. I don't know if I still ever want to have the family, that nuclear family, that everybody's, not everybody, but that society tends to try to obsess us with and to show up here and say, like I forged this path, I know what I want, I'm allowed to have the things, even if it doesn't seem clear to everybody else, even if my waters are murky from my experiences. Right, you don't have to. It doesn't have to look like what everybody else wants it to look like. It has to look like what you want it to look like and it has to feel good with whatever you decide, because no one else is living your fucking life.
Speaker 1:You are living your life.
Speaker 2:Well, I want to say you know how you said it has to look, how you want it to look, even the way that I'm navigating this. So I'll share with you and I'll share with your audience. I just joined matchcom and I even paid for the platinum version. I mean, I'm I'm like am I paying for this? Okay, I guess I'm doing that. I'm paying for this. So I paid. I paid for my membership for matchcom.
Speaker 2:I'm supposed to be going I don't know when this episode is dropping, but there's a singles mixer at the end of July. So I'm signing up to go for that. It's at this fancy bar and I'm like, all right, I don't drink, so I'm just going to go and have a good time and I'll just meet some people. So I'm putting myself out there little by little. I don't know if I'm going to meet my future husband on matchcom or a singles mixer, but I'm taking the action. I'm taking the action that signifying to God and signifying to the universe. I'm doing exactly what I say, I want to do and I'm taking action on it. So that, for me, is the most important thing. It is not enough to just say it out loud. I say this in my book. You have to put the metal to the pedal and you have to actually take action. You got, you don't have to hit the ground running like, take your baby steps, take the next best step. So for me that was joining matchcom. For me that was paying 50 bucks to go to a singles mixer and and I'll let you know how that goes. But I'm very excited just to see who is out there for me, because I have not been with anybody other than the one person I've been with for seven years and while we've had some really great times and he's become such a good friend of mine like he is like one of my closest friends in Austin we just realized, like this is not going anywhere. Like that's the conversation that we have, like this is not, we're not actually going anywhere. We have a lot of comfort and familiarity with each other, but it's not heading towards a long-term relationship, it's not heading towards marriage and I don't think either of us wanted with each other. That's the thing, and we both got really honest with each other. And another thing in this whole process and doing it my way is I want to do it with integrity. So I let the man that I've been with for the past seven years, on and off. I let him know I'm joining matchcom or I joined matchcom. Actually I'm going to a singles mixer.
Speaker 2:I wanted things to be clean. I didn't want it to feel like, oh, what are you doing behind my back? Or anything like that, even though we're in our off again phase. But I decided to use this opportunity to really see who's out there for me and just get myself back in the game and see what that feels like, what feels good for me as a 43 year old, divorced, child, free woman who's been around the block and been through a lot of shit in her life. How does she want to navigate this season of her life meeting somebody? So I just doing it my way. I'm doing it in a way that feels low effort but still maximum results, like that's. That's what I'm after I love that.
Speaker 1:First of all, I celebrate the matchcom. Uh, I will be checking in on how that mixer went. That's exciting and I think it's just another reminder for people. There's no time frame for love and relationship. There's no time frame for love and relationship. There's no time frame for your success, right? If you're showing up with whatever vision you have in mind. Obviously also, we don't know what tomorrow is going to bring. We could fall off the face of the earth tomorrow and as long as we're showing up today in a way that really feels good and feels like it's nourishing us and we're putting ourselves out there to where we don't look back and go, I regret. I saw a quote and I really wish I remember who it was from and maybe it was Viola Davis and she said two people that you need to look to like, you need to be worried about whether or not you're showing up for, is your 80 year old self and your six year old self.
Speaker 1:And if you can show up today and go, you know what, like my 80-year-old self would be proud of me. My six-year-old self would be proud of me. I think that's the nudge that you follow in every aspect of your life, and especially love, because relationships are such a huge part of our life. I read a study where it talked about the people that you spend most of your life with right, and the person that you're going to spend the most time with yourself with is yourself. And the next is the person you choose to do life with. So taking your time to find somebody that you want to do life with, because that is a big undertaking, it's not something that's frivolous, it's not something that we want to find somebody just for the night, we want to find somebody for our life, and so you put the effort that you want to receive back. If you're just I want to say kind of like nickel and diming your desire for relationship, maybe you're not going to get where you want to get. You have to invest, invest who you are.
Speaker 1:There's no such thing, at least from my perspective, as failing in a relationship. I think a lot of people can. If it doesn't work out, you failed, or if people get divorced so it's a failed marriage, and bringing it back to cultural stigmas from your end. Like you're, you're used. What did you say? You're used? Uh, damaged goods, you're damaged goods.
Speaker 1:Like that type of mentality can be such so cancerous for our hearts it can harden us in a way that does not leave us open to possibility, and possibility is magic inside of relationship. I tell people all the time, like, fall for the potential, fall for the potential of somebody or something of love. Because, because, what, that least what it says for me is that you're curious, you're remaining open to the possibility of what someone could be for you of what a situation could be.
Speaker 1:It's not saying you know, lean in and make it what you want it to be if they're showing you signs that it's just not right Like with this relationship, the on and off again.
Speaker 1:It's seeing it for what it is but also remaining hopeful that there is still somebody for me and I think another thing that you said in our call that I would love to bring it back to is you said as long as I stay, I know that it's right around. It feels far away, but I also feel like it's right around the corner and so I'm showing up with that frequency, I'm showing up with my person is out there and like whether or not I have that, only God knows, whether or not I know exactly what's going to happen I feel it and I think, staying true to that part of us, that faithfulness in us or that wisdom inside of us that says I know what I want, and being in a space of receiving, but also actively receiving. Like you said, it's not just saying it out loud, it's actually taking steps towards the thing that you want, which is a huge part of your teaching too. We can talk things out loud. All we want, yes, we might find clarity, but if we're not taking the steps towards what it is that we desire, how do we know that?
Speaker 1:One, it's possible for us. Two, how do we know if we'll ever get there? We don't champion ourselves, and that's the one thing I love about you is you are so. You have taught me about what it means to champion myself, to give voice to the things that I deeply desire, and so I think, sitting in this space, hearing you talk about what it is that you desire and championing yourself and taking action, it's to me it's really inspiring. Even being somebody who has been in marriage I haven't been divorced yet I don't understand that feeling, although I hear about it. I have friends and family who have been divorced, or I'd have friends and family who've had really, really messy situations, and the one thing that I love is that, at least for you, there's still an openness, there's still this desire to want to be in committed relationship.
Speaker 2:Well, that's another thing with the intuition that you talked about I shared. Resentment is a really good indicator of where you're not listening to your intuition. But it's also that spark of desire, right, like I noticed myself not having desires as much, and I'm like I'm a Taurus, I have so many desires. Where are my desires gone? And then I mean also, I should say in full transparency, my dad just died May 22. So I've been dealing with a lot of grief, right, so, so the grief has been coming up for me and in that grief I've been noticing that my, that, the, the, the grief is louder than my desires these days, right, so I have to give myself a time, like a like space, to feel the grief but also say you're not a bad person for leaning into your desires. I know you're grieving your dad, but it's also okay for you to lean into your desires. So I had to make peace with that.
Speaker 2:Within myself too, there is, uh, there's also the grieving process of the old version of me, right, the old version of me who used to be married or used to be in this on again, off again relationship. Now there's this brand new woman who's saying I desire to be in a committed, long-term relationship. I desire to be a wife, or desire to be married again and allowing her to emerge. So the grieving is not just grieving the loss of my dad. It's also grieving these other parts of myself and these versions of myself that I have outgrown. I'm no longer that person anymore, right, I'm a different person now. I can feel it from the inside.
Speaker 1:It's just actually expressing that out loud and then getting so crystal clear on what I want and then taking action on that One thing that I know as well, that is so prominent in working with you, is just self-compassion and recognizing that sometimes you just feel how you feel and it doesn't have to be fixed, it doesn't have to immediately be worked through. You can just sit inside of the shit. You can sit inside of the heartache and the grief and the pain and the messiness and the humanness and let it just be, and then still self-champion and then still show self-compassion, and sometimes that self-compassion is going. I'm really struggling right now, and that's another thing I'd love to talk about too. You talk openly about your father passing. You talk openly about the grief, and one thing that I know is that it helps when you are able to share the shitty things that you're going through as well as the beautiful things that you're going through. And the way that you show up and sharing your grief and the way that you show up in allowing yourself to process out loud, I know, makes an impact on me, and so anybody else who has lost a parent, who has had deep loss, will resonate. And having a space that they can go, oh I'm. This is human to feel this way. This is human to sit inside, sit inside of all of these things and also to witness you continue to show up. I think I've told you this multiple times that the way that you continue to show up, regardless of what's going on in your life, to me is it's the best, whether you're, you know, watching the stuff on my feed or or get on my stories like I don't.
Speaker 2:I don't hop on stories because I have to. I hop on stories because I want to. I hop on stories because I want to. I don't share stuff because I feel like I have to. I do it because I want to.
Speaker 2:So, amidst all the grief, I still showed up and I really appreciate you saying how much you're inspired by that and thank you for celebrating that, because even when I was grieving, I was still showing up, because that's just who I am. That is just who I am Like life can be lifing and I will still show up. That's just because I still show up, because I've made a commitment to my life that I'm going to show up. That's across the board, not just one area, not just two areas. Every single area of my life. I'm committed to my life. So, no matter what happens, my dad dying is a part of my life, but I still have these other parts of my life that I still want to show up for. So that's what you see. You see someone who is committed to their life. So that's where I'm at now. I'm committed to my life, I'm committed to growing, I'm committed to showing up and I want to share that with somebody else.
Speaker 1:And I love that. I think it's so easy for us to close up when things, when massive grief hits. It's so easy for us to lock ourselves away, and the one thing that I admire is that you share how situations like your father passing break you the fuck open right. There's a hard to have a grasp on, like what is life and this is life. It's like both, and if you know, you know that sentiment like what is life and this is life, and so I guess maybe another thing for me with you is to share the experience of how, if you're willing, the grief around your father passing has changed, even or evolved the version of you that loves and desires commitment. How do you see that playing a part in what you desire in partnership?
Speaker 2:Well, I think I have to say watching my mother take care of my father till the very end, like till the very end, so. So my father was very healthy up until retirement, until he was like 67. And then he got sick with a neurological condition which was a torturous, slow goodbye. It was awful. It took away his ability to eat, his ability to go to the bathroom. He would pee everywhere. His muscles got all stiff, he couldn't walk, so he became bed bound, wheelchair bound. I watched my mother till the very end take care of him and I just thought, and after he died I was like I want that level of commitment, I want that like she never left him alone. She took care of him till his very final breath. And I'm like when he died and I see her now and I see what a hole it's left for her.
Speaker 2:His passing I don't know it just made me realize like man on the opposite of grief, like I'm grieving so hard because I love this man so hard. And so I realized I have so much love to give and, yes, I can give it to myself all day. I do it's great, I get it. Self-love Like I. All I do is love myself. Right, it's just me and me all the time. I love myself all the time.
Speaker 2:But it just made me realize I lost the most amazing man in the world. The most amazing man that I've ever met in my life is now dead. Now, what the fuck am I doing? And then I started looking at my seven year relationship and I'm like what am I doing with this person? They just it just woke me up. I'm just being very honest. It woke me up and I have nothing against him. Like I said, he's been a great friend, he is a loyal friend.
Speaker 2:But when my dad died, it left such a hole in my heart and I'm like but I still have all this love to give. And it just made me realize like life's too fucking short. I don't want to be alone for the rest of my life, even though I can say like I'm a bad bitch, I'm a boss bitch, I can be alone. That's not a badge of honor that I ever want to wear, ever. I don't want to wear that badge of honor like, oh, I don't need anybody, because that is not true. I need so many people in my life. I need people in my life. I want people in my life to support me, to love me, to celebrate me, to champion me, to inspire me. But what I really want at the end of the day is come home to one person who will take care of me, and I will take care of them, just like my mother took care of my father and my father took care of my mother when we were younger. So that's how that all went down after he died.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thank you for sharing that. I really appreciate that yeah. I think it's a beautiful lesson and there's something I mean I know you and I both use humor to in our lives.
Speaker 2:I think humor is such a beautiful aspect of life, I feel like you're about to crack up laughing right now aspect of life.
Speaker 1:I feel like you're about to crack up laughing right now. I feel like you want to laugh so hard. I was about to crack up laughing 100% because I thought to myself what a beautiful lesson Date to marry someone who you know will wipe your ass on your deathbed. Truly, If you look at somebody and you can't go, that person's going to take care of me when shit hits the fan. If I can't trust that, what's?
Speaker 2:the fucking point. Shit hits a fan. If I can't trust that, what's the fucking point? I mean, my mom wiped my dad's ass till the very end. I mean I'm not trying to be, I know that sounds really dark, but it's also like that's the truth. She wiped his ass, she took care of him every single day, and my mother's a doctor, so he was getting exquisite care, right, right, he was getting really good care from my mother, you know, and I just I want someone like that, and I think the next step for me also just talking, just holding accountable I do want to have a conversation with my mother. We are very close. I do want to tell her I want to be remarried again. I would like to be married again. I just don't know where to find this person. This person will come to me, but I'm going to have this conversation with her. So I will have that conversation with her in this next week and I'll report back. I love that.
Speaker 1:Thank you for offering that accountability. I will be reaching out to you to see how that conversation goes.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:You're welcome. So then, what would be your advice for anyone stuck between because I do kind of want to bring it back to how I met you, which is, do the work that you do and what would be your advice for somebody who's stuck between success and ambition and being this boss, ass, woman?
Speaker 1:to somebody who also deeply desires to lean into their feminine and have and I'm not saying that business has no femininity, it absolutely does but lean into this version of them. Who also deeply desires family and relational commitment and a life partner and a best friendship, somebody that they can really come home to and relax into a safe place for them to land home when they're out there being a boss. What would be your advice to them if they're sitting in that in between?
Speaker 2:I do a lot of visualization. It's free, you can do it almost at any time, just don't do it when you're driving. But I spend a lot of time visualizing and feeling into what I want, and the more I did that, the more relaxed I became with the idea that this could be possible for me. Like my body started to get used to the sensations of having what I want, because I wanted to train my body to not have it feel like a shock to the system when I do get into a relationship. I didn't want it to feel like this dopamine hit. I wanted to feel relaxed in my body. So I do a lot of visualization. So actually, like, do this, lay down, lay down on your couch, have dim lighting or some LED lighting or play some music or sit in complete silence, silence and close your eyes or keep them open whatever you feel comfortable with, and visualize yourself going through your day with your person. You don't have to know what he or she or they look like. You just have to feel what that would feel like for you to be in that, and so let your body get used to the sensations of what you want. Second thing is to own it and to own it and to actually say like, oh damn, this is what I want. And then, third, to say it out loud, actually say it out loud. And then, of course, fourth is to take the next best step, this version of you who is successful, who is a boss bitch, who is ambitious. What would be the next best step for the version of you who wants to be in partnership? What would she take? What step would she take? What step would he take? I don't know. You know, if your audience is mixed, you know, just pick your gender and, you know, apply this to yourself. But it's like, what action would you take If you know I want to be? Maybe it's I want to. I want to dress in a way that makes me feel inviting. I want to dress in a way that makes me feel sexy. Maybe I want to put myself out there and go to a singles mixer. Maybe I do join a matchcom. Maybe I let my closest friends know hey, I'm available, I'm available. So if you're open, or you know if you're open, or if you know anyone, send them my way. Maybe you sign up to work with the matchmaker, right, but there are so many options out there, but it starts with, you have to get safe and used to the idea of you having what you want. It felt unsafe for me to say I want to be a wife again, I want to be in a long-term relationship again, because I had so much shame piled on top of that. I had so much. Do you really need another thing in your life? You don't need a relationship. That's so much work. It's just like another job, another task. You're laughing, because it's true. It's true, I felt like that. I really felt like that. But I had to give myself the permission to actually feel into what I want, let my body feel settled in that and say, damn, this feels really good. I do want that. I really do want that.
Speaker 2:And, brianna, it still gets scary to think about. It is because I've lived alone. Even though I've been in this on again, off again relationship for seven years, I live alone. So I'm very used to my own ways. I'm set in my own ways the way I do things. I'm not rigid by any means, but I am. I'm routine, I am consistent, like I am extremely stable in how I do things and I have a rhythm, and so for someone to mess that up feels kind of scary for me. But even that languaging I had to catch. Oh, someone's going to ruin it, someone's going to mess it up, or maybe they enhance, maybe they add more to my life. So I have to.
Speaker 2:I mean, I wrote the whole fucking book on self-talk and when it came to this area of my life, my self-talk was shit. I had to really manage what I was saying to myself about the thing that I want. So fifth step would be to start really looking at your self-talk. What are you telling yourself about yourself, about your desire, about your desires, about your needs, about your wants, about you wanting to be back in a relationship? What are you saying to yourself? For me, it was like, oh my God, being in a relationship is going to like complicate my life and it's like is it the most positive person ever? But when it came to relationships, I had this negative nancy attitude about it. I had a negative attitude about it. So I have to check myself. So all those things that I just listed will help.
Speaker 1:I love that. Thank you for sharing that and for maybe a little bit more personally for you. When you think about your person, your life partner, what is the one thing that you're most excited about?
Speaker 2:Oh, what a great question. The thing I'm most excited about is I'm most excited about someone inspiring me. I want to be inspired by the person that I'm with. I already inspire myself all damn day. I have people tell me you're so inspiring, vasavi, all the time. This is not something that is new to me. I thank you very much for saying and also to you for saying that I want to be inspired by my person. I want to look at you and be like damn, I'm impressed. I want that. That's what I want. I want to be impressed. I want to be impressed. I want to be like damn you, you're ambitious, you. You really went after it. You really, like you did the damn thing. Like I want to be, I'm turned on by ambitious men.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm turned on by that. I'm turned on by men who don't make excuses. I'm turned on by men who are inspiring because they do what they say they're going to do, like I know that's just basic integrity, but that inspires me because it's very rare. You, I mean the average. I mean I don't want to get into like what the average person does, but it's like most people do not follow through. Most people do not follow through. They have lazy ambition. Oh, I say I want this, but they don't do shit about it. I want to be with someone who I'm like. I am so inspired by you.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That's sexy and I think also the way that you show up, I'll reflect this back to you. The way that you show up, our inner world will reflect our outer world. You know this, and I also think how we carry ourselves inwardly and outwardly are going to call on the people that are meant for us, are going to call on our person. If that's what the intention is, the person that you want will be the person that you go for. For sure Will there be moments where it's a learning curve for relationship. Again, absolutely. If you're somebody who's been living alone and having your rhythm and, like you said, you're not rigid but you have your ways of doing your things, that will be expanded in partnership, and so I'm thrilled and I'm so looking forward to to that growth for you and that evolution for you, and I want to say I'm also.
Speaker 2:I'm not only open to love, brianna, and I want your audience to hear this, I am open to evidence, and so here's what I mean. I believe you may not get the thing that you want right away, but God will always show you that it is possible for you. So I've been having a leaky roof. I got it fixed, everything's great, it's awesome. But my roofer the roofing guy who owns the company was hella sexy. He came to my house. He's a married man. He's a married man. He's unavailable. I have you know that's that's never going to go anywhere. But he was so sexy Not, I mean, he was a very handsome man, but his personality, he was charming.
Speaker 2:He was like the ultimate salesman, but he wasn't sleazy, he was just very excited and very alive and very energizing. And I was around him and I realized, god, you're showing me that there are men out there who can inspire me. There are men out there who make me come alive. Right, I'm the one that usually makes myself and makes others come alive by sharing my energy. I'm a generator in human design. This is just what I do. I just I have boundless amounts of energy. But to be around my this guy who, like I said, is unavailable, just made me realize like there are men out there, I have to put myself out there. So he gave me evidence that like, yes, there are men out there that could give me the tingles.
Speaker 1:Yeah, possibility is available where we remain curious and open to receive, and that's an exact like a beautiful example of that situation. And also I'll take note that everything that you expressed in this person are aspects of who you are.
Speaker 2:You better believe it. I want my male counterpart. I just don't want someone exactly like me, right? It's someone who's going to I'm a Taurus, so I can be. I know I've said three times I'm a Taurus, but I don't think you understand. I am a true Taurus. So it's like I need someone who is going to motivate me sometimes, because I am the one motivating others all the time. So I want someone who's going to get me off my lazy ass and be like let's go do this, let's go have some fun Like I would love that. So I I'm excited for that. I'm looking forward to it.
Speaker 1:I'm looking forward to that for you too.
Speaker 1:And so, to sum up our entire conversation, it's been such a beautiful conversation, vasavi. I just need you to know that. Thank you. What would be the one tip for anybody listening, and something maybe that you wish you would have known years ago, about living your life out loud in every aspect, because it does impact every aspect, and I will be a testament to that, working with you Living your life out loud. It contributes to every aspect of my life, including my romantic life. So what would be your top tip for living your life out loud?
Speaker 2:Living your life out loud. My top tip would be please really get to a place where you like yourself so much that you are less concerned about the opinions of other people and more concerned about whether you can go to sleep at night peacefully, like that is my rule of thumb. If I can, I can share anything out loud. It's easy for me to do that because it is truth. It is the truth. It is. It is me being honest for me. That is my. That is my yardstick. Like it's, it's not.
Speaker 2:Did I get likes on this? Do people agree with me? It's was I as honest as I could be. And if I'm as honest as I could be, then I can go to sleep at night. So then it doesn't really matter what other people think about me, which is why it's not hard for me to live my life out loud, because my value system is that I'm going to be as honest as possible, I'm going to be as transparent as possible and I'm living according to my values.
Speaker 2:And if I'm living according to my values, then nothing that anyone can say can make me feel some sort of way because I'm living in alignment with my values. I'm living my life according to me and that's all that matters. That is the only thing that matters. Not your mother, not your father, not your sister, not your brother, not even your partner and and I don't you know. If you want to disagree with me on that, that's fine, but I truly believe that not even your partner. You have to live. You're still your own person at the end of the day, so you have to live your life according to your values. You can go to sleep at night peacefully. It becomes a lot easier for you to live your life out loud.
Speaker 1:I would 100% agree with you. I wouldn't disagree with you at all. I think one of the biggest lessons for me as being a wife, being in marriage, is that many people don't know how to individuate, they don't know their own voice. Separate from their partner, their partnership, their marriage is the sole proprietor of everything in their life. And when you realize you are still your own person, choosing to do life alongside somebody, the secure. I tell people this all the time the autonomy of your relationship is only as strong as the security of it, and you can only build the security of the relationship by knowing who you are within it, outside from your partner. So everything you said hits so home and it was very profound, and I deeply appreciate you being on the podcast. I would love for you to share with everybody here where they can find you, how they can work with you. I know how, but I would love to hear from you. To sum up this call.
Speaker 2:The easiest way to find me and to learn all the ways that you can work with me is just go to vasavikumarcom. You can order my book, say it Out Loud, which is also on my website, or Amazon or everywhere that you get your books, and then also, if you are on Instagram, find me on Instagram. My name is Vasavi and chat with me. Let me know that you love this episode. Send me a voice note. Send Brianna a voice note. Let us know what you loved about it.
Speaker 1:Thank, you, vas, if you were being here. I deeply appreciate your vulnerability, your transparency, your willingness to just show up. Thank you to everybody that's listening. I really appreciate you, and you can find all of Vasavi's links in the show notes. If you enjoyed this episode, please feel free to share it, like it, review it, comment on it, subscribe to the podcast, go follow Vasavi on all of the things Her links are in the show notes. She is a powerhouse. She is somebody who really walks her talk and shows up in all areas of her life with tenacity and a hunger that is honestly admirable and also inspiring and resonant for anybody who aches to show up in life authentically, boldly, transparently and out loud. Thank you so much again for being here. Thank you, vasavi. Stay curious, stay sexy and we will talk soon.